Introduction:

Hello and a very warm welcome to Episode No. 103 of the Podcast.

Today, I have a fascinating guest on the show—Mary Fleming, a seasoned branding consultant and founder of Mary Fleming Design.

Mary's career journey is a compelling example of how following your creative passions and staying true to your values can lead to a fulfilling career, even when it involves making a mid-career change.

 n our conversation, Mary shares her transition from corporate life to running her own branding consultancy, the challenges she faced along the way, and the strategies used to overcome them.

Her story is not just about branding—it's about resilience, resourcefulness, and the courage to redefine your career path.

Mary also discusses the importance of aligning your career with your personal and career values, offering insights that will resonate with anyone considering a change in their professional life.

Let’s meet Mary Fleming now.

Mary Fleming: Sure. Thanks, Mark, for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate it. I’m Mary Fleming, and my business is Mary Fleming Design. I’m based in Wexford, Ireland, and I’ve been running my own business for 11 years now. I’ve worked mostly in design and advertising, both in corporate settings and independently. There was a transition period of a few years where I had my three daughters—two of whom are now young adults, with one still of school age—but yeah, that’s me in a nutshell.

Mark Crossfield: Thank you. So, 11 years into the business—what inspired you to pursue a career in brand strategy and design?

Mary Fleming: Well, I’ve always loved visual arts. I’ve always been a creative, a bit of a daydreamer in school. Although I was good in school, I was always drawn to the more creative subjects. I remember a guy who worked in an ad agency in Dublin came to talk to us one day in school and then took us on a trip to the ad agency. I thought, "I love this!" The idea of coming up with campaign ideas and working with different creatives really appealed to me.

So that was the start of the idea. The visual side of things and the art drew me in. A degree in marketing seemed like a good college choice to bring me into the advertising world, which I did. I found myself in the design space, where design and advertising overlap a lot. But design is more visual. My mother actually wanted me to apply for pharmacy, which is a million miles away, but I did that, knowing full well I was never going to get it—thank goodness, because it would have been a disaster.

I worked in design and became more interested in branding because I saw that clients who had a clear sense of their brand got much better results from their advertising.

Mark Crossfield: So, did you go straight into branding? Tell me more about the beginning of your career.

Mary Fleming: No, I didn’t go straight into branding. I worked in all sorts of jobs. I worked at TSR, the home of Dungeons and Dragons, for four years in the States. It was full of creatives—game designers, artists, writers. I worked with licensees, applying the artists’ images to products like puzzles, T-shirts, and books, which TSR then licensed out.

I returned to Ireland and worked in a design studio and in advertising and design back in Dublin. When I became pregnant with my first daughter, the company I was working for at the time had never had an employee get pregnant before. It was a new experience for them, and I was very dedicated, always working extra hours. But when I approached my boss about my maternity leave, his response was, "Let he who has dipped his wick pay for the oil." That comment hit me like a punch in the gut and changed something inside of me. It made me realize that just because I was dedicated didn’t mean they felt they owed me anything.

That was the start of me thinking more about putting myself first. I switched to working for Independent Holiday Hostels of Ireland (IHH), which was a cooperative of 133 independently owned hostels around Ireland. I was the marketing manager, responsible for maximizing the budget for the group.

Mark Crossfield: So, you were working for IHH as a marketing manager, you had two children by then, and then you left the company to start your own branding consultancy. Is that how it worked?

Mary Fleming: Yes, eventually. There was a transitionary phase. I was finding it hard to juggle having two toddlers and managing the commute and travel for work. I suggested creating a job share and took on managing the annual guide, which was an intense job. That led to doing other design work for other companies, which gradually specialized into branding.

Mark Crossfield: So, for you, the transition from marketing manager to branding consultant was over a longer period. Even though it was a gradual transition, there must have been challenges. What were some of those challenges?

Mary Fleming: Yes, there were many challenges. Going from a guaranteed income to the uncertainty of working for yourself was scary. There’s definitely a leap of faith required. Another challenge was going from working with a team to working on my own, which I found hard at first. But I’ve adapted to it, and now I actually really like it.

Mark Crossfield: Isolation is a common challenge when you work for yourself. I’m interested to know how you dealt with that. What strategies did you use to stay connected and engaged?

Mary Fleming: A few different things. Early on, I connected with other mothers in the same situation as me. When we moved from the city to the countryside, I discovered that many women were working their own thing while also minding their kids. That was a revelation to me. We helped each other out with childcare, which was really important.

I also discovered networking. Getting to know other business owners and sharing challenges, ideas, and support has been great. I’m in different networking groups, and online networking has been a boon, especially since COVID. You can connect with people from anywhere in the world, and that has really helped eliminate the loneliness.

Mark Crossfield: It sounds like you almost created your own support team through those connections, even though there wasn’t one there for you initially.

Mary Fleming: Yes, exactly. And I think anyone can do it. Once you get to know even a small number of people, they introduce you to more, and you become more connected that way.

Mark Crossfield: I’m also interested in the skills you’ve transferred from your role as a manager to your role as a brand consultant. How many of those skills have you used in your new role?

Mary Fleming: Quite a few. Project management is a big one—handling different strands and keeping an eye on the longer game while managing the pieces that come together to make the long-term goal happen. Resourcefulness is another skill. You don’t need to have many resources to be resourceful. Sometimes having restrictions actually makes you more resourceful. Problem-solving is also something I’ve always enjoyed, especially when facing a particular challenge.

Mark Crossfield: You mentioned resourcefulness. Do you have any examples of how you’ve used that in your current role?

Mary Fleming: Yes, I’ve done quite a bit of skill swapping with people—trading services or resources, which I might not have otherwise had access to. For example, I swapped design work for the electrical work on our house, which worked out great. I’ve also been part of an accountability group with other creatives, where we share knowledge and support each other without any cost. It’s a great way to learn and grow.

Mark Crossfield: That’s a great idea—sharing skills and knowledge to build connections and learn from each other. You’ve been on quite a journey, from Dungeons and Dragons to branding consultancy. Are there any unexpected lessons or insights you’ve gained during your career change?

Mary Fleming: Yes, there have been many lessons. Dealing with loneliness and uncertainty was a big challenge. I’ve always felt it was important to be a good mother, and I often felt guilty about not being 100% focused on my children because of the erratic nature of my work hours. On a positive note, I’ve learned that we’re all capable of more than we give ourselves credit for. There’s a great comfort in knowing that I’ll figure things out, just as I have before.

I’ve also realized that time is running out for all of us. We’ll never be as young as we are today, so if there’s something you really want to do, it’s important to take action now. I highly recommend talking to a career coach, like you, Mark. I didn’t have a coach when I was going through my transitions, but I can see now how much it would have helped to speed things up and make the process simpler.

Mark Crossfield: That’s so true. A lot of the challenges we face are about our thinking—worrying about change and the fear of making a start. But as you move towards your goals, those fears often fall away, and the path becomes clearer. It’s important to recognize that life is too short to stay in a job that doesn’t bring you joy. There are so many opportunities out there for fulfilling work.

Mary Fleming: Absolutely. And while running my own business suits me, it’s not the only option for making a change. There are many ways to explore new opportunities without committing right away. That’s where coaching is really valuable—having someone outside of your own mind to help you see the wood from the trees. Fear is a huge factor that can cripple people, especially if they’re in a job they really hate but have been doing for so long that it feels familiar and comfortable.

Mark Crossfield: I think in our mid-careers, our values start to become more important, and they often drive our career decisions. Did you find that your values became a significant driver in your career?

Mary Fleming: Definitely. I think we all know when something isn’t quite aligning with our values. When you’ve been doing something for so long that you don’t like, you end up suppressing a part of yourself, including your values. Over time, that discomfort grows, and it can become a major motivation to start looking for something that aligns better with who you are and what you believe in.

Mark Crossfield: Absolutely, and I think it often creeps up on you. Our values do change over time, and sometimes a significant event can trigger a change in what's important to us. When we start feeling uncomfortable in our work, it’s usually a sign that our values have shifted, and it’s time to explore new options. So, moving forward, what are your future goals and aspirations for your career?

Mary Fleming: I began teaching last year, and I’ve really enjoyed it—working with entrepreneurs who are just starting out and teaching graphic design skills. I’d like to continue building on that. I also want to help more small businesses capitalize on the power of their brand.

A lot of branding advice is geared towards big companies like Apple or Nike, but those same principles apply to small businesses too. I want to help small businesses realize that they have something valuable—like a winning lottery ticket that’s been tucked away and forgotten. My goal is to help them unlock that potential.

Mark Crossfield: I think you describe that on your website as a "defogging" process, right? Bringing clarity to branding?

Mary Fleming: Yes, exactly. I see myself as someone who helps clients clear away the fog to get clarity on their brand. We work through their brand foundations, their personality, values, long-term vision, and mission—all the core elements that drive their brand. Branding is all about differentiation and connection, and it’s important to approach it with clarity. I help clients extract what’s already inside them and make it clear and actionable.

Mark Crossfield: That sounds like a powerful process. How can listeners learn more about you and your work?

Mary Fleming: I would encourage them to sign up for my newsletter, which is called The Defogger. You can sign up on my website, Mary Fleming Design. I’m also active on LinkedIn and Facebook, under Mary Fleming Design.

Mark Crossfield: Great, I’ll include links in the show notes for those places as well. It just remains for me to say thank you, Mary, for coming along today to talk to me. It’s been a fascinating conversation—from Dungeons and Dragons to branding consultancy, teaching, and now helping small businesses unlock the power of their brand. Best of luck with your business going forward.

Mary Fleming: Thanks a million, Mark. The same to you!

That was my conversation with Mary Fleming.

Her journey is a powerful reminder that pursuing a career aligned to what’s important to you, your values, can lead to not only professional success but also personal fulfilment.

Key takeaways from Mary’s story include the importance of staying connected with your network, the value of being resourceful, and the courage to take bold steps, even when the path ahead is uncertain.

Mary’s experience also highlights how a mid-career change can be a gradual process, one that allows you to transition at your own pace while maintaining your priorities.

Whether you’re considering a career change or looking to refine your current path, her insights offer valuable lessons on how to navigate the journey.

If you’re feeling unsure about your career direction, take inspiration from Mary’s story: connect with others, trust in your ability to figure things out, and don’t be afraid to explore new possibilities.

Conclusion:

Thank you for joining me today. I’ve enjoyed your company, and I look forward to seeing you next time.