Welcome to the Mid-Career Change podcast. I'm Mark Crossfield, a professional career coach, here to help you turn mid-career uncertainty into an exciting journey of self-discovery and reinvention. Whether you're feeling stuck, seeking new opportunities, or ready to inject more meaning into your work, this podcast is your roadmap to transform your career.
For episode show notes, visit bravocoaching.co.uk/podcast. Now, let's get started with today's episode.
Hello, this is episode 134 of the podcast. I'm Mark Crossfield, your host, and today I'm joined by Suzanne Penny, a career and leadership transitions specialist with more than 20 years’ experience in outplacement, recruitment and people development.
I first spoke with Suzanne back in 2023 for the Association for Coaching podcast, which I was hosting at the time, and I've wanted to bring her onto this show ever since.
Suzanne supports leaders and teams as they navigate change – whether that's redundancy, stepping into a new role, or building confidence at key career moments. She also runs a community designed to make career transition and redundancy feel less isolating.
In our conversation today, we explore what genuinely helps people move forward, the role community can play, and the trends she's seeing in the world of work.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzannepennyexecutivecoach/
Okay, let's meet Suzanne.
Mark:
Hi Suzanne, thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Suzanne:
Hello Mark, it's great to be here.
Mark:
And it's great to be talking to you again, because we did actually have an interview for the Association for Coaching podcast back in 2023, when I interviewed you then, didn't we?
Suzanne:
We did, yes. And it was a real joy to be on that one with you. I think a lot has happened since then as well, even though it was only a couple of years ago.
Mark:
Yeah, lots has happened. Well, maybe for the listeners of this podcast, could you share a bit about your journey into coaching and the transition work that you do, and how you got involved in that?
Suzanne:
For me it goes way back, because like many people, we don't always know exactly what we want to do with our careers. When I went to university, I did a degree in Business Management with French because I liked French and I knew I wanted to work in business.
Then I had this epiphany that I wanted to help people find jobs. I remember saying to my amazing friend with huge dreadlocks, “I want to help people find jobs.” That led me into the world of recruitment, and I spent about 15 years of my life in the recruitment industry.
In that time, I had two redundancies. It was the second redundancy – when I had a one-year-old and a five-year-old – that really shifted things. I saw an advert with a local recruitment business about six miles from me. They wanted someone to support people who had been made redundant. It felt like such a joy to bring together my recruitment expertise and my own life experiences.
I did that work and absolutely loved it – supporting people at a difficult time in their lives. Then I said to myself, “Who are the market leaders doing this? I want to work with them too.” That led me to working with a very big name in the outplacement space, and it kind of went from there. That’s how I got into it.
Mark:
And how did the redundancy piece – your own experiences – influence your work? You must have brought that into how you support people.
Suzanne:
I’ve probably now spent about 15 years of my career supporting professionals at all levels – right the way up to senior executives – to navigate redundancy. I see the same patterns and trends whatever level I’m supporting: people lose confidence, they lose clarity, it affects their wellbeing, and they wonder what’s next.
The number of people who say to me, “Am I ever going to get another job?” is huge.
That really shaped the work I do. I wanted to continue my journey in that space, but I also kept thinking, “I want to set up my own thing.” I was doing associate day-rate work, showing up, doing the days, loving the work… but I always had this voice saying, “I’m going to get my own website, put my own testimonials up, and go for this myself.” And I just never did.
When I finally did decide to go for it and build my own business with my own brand, it was because of a big desire in my heart: there is not enough outplacement or redundancy support for people who don’t get funded outplacement support.
With the outplacement companies I was working with, I’d go in and support organisations that were offboarding their people – which was brilliant and I loved it – but I kept thinking, “What about all the people who don’t get outplacement support? What about them?”
Of course, they can have one-to-one coaching and invest in that themselves. But we know budgets are different, and not everybody can afford one-to-one coaching. That’s why the community aspect I’ve brought in this year is such an important part of what I want to continue offering – so I can support people at different stages and price points.
Mark:
Yeah, and I want to talk about the community aspect as well, so I'll come onto that. In terms of the redundancy itself – you'd lived through it. You were bringing that understanding into your work, and that really helped you support people in their transitions?
Suzanne:
Yes, I think so. When you’ve experienced it yourself, you really know what people are going through.
I’ll also share something that wasn’t a career highlight: I got fired once. That was back in 2019, just before the pandemic – October 2019. I’d had a huge life shift: I’d left my 15-year relationship and marriage the year before, and I was needing to start again and find myself again.
I wanted to be around “growth” for a bit, because I’d been supporting around 80 people through redundancy and coming home to my children really upset. I just wanted to be around growth. So I started a new role, new start, new company… and I got fired within 12 days. There were five of us who got let go that day. It was just the most horrendous experience.
That really shaped how I support people now during career transition, because it was a point in my life where I really lost confidence. It massively affected me – no one wants to get fired, especially when you’ve just started somewhere.
I vividly remember driving home in tears thinking, “What am I going to do?” I was a single mum of two kids. I had one week’s paid notice because I was in probation. And on top of that, I’d been saving to remortgage the house and my car had packed in. It felt like everything was piling on at once.
The car story is almost symbolic: that first morning of the new job, this car that had had no problems suddenly started losing power. It ended up being gearbox failure. Within a couple of weeks I had to get a new car. Looking back, it’s like the universe was redirecting me, saying, “This path isn’t for you.” It was definitely a defining moment.
Mark:
Wow. Yeah, a lot going on there. With the distance of time now, when you look back on those two things – the redundancies and then being fired, plus everything else going on – what did you take from that, and how do you use that in supporting other people who might be going through their own crisis?
Suzanne:
When I got fired there was this immediate need to get something quickly. I always say to people now: pause and really reflect on what you want.
I was in a situation where I needed to earn and I needed something fast. I didn’t really have the luxury of time, but I also realised I couldn’t afford to completely lose my confidence. Even though it was knocked, there was a voice saying, “You don’t have time to lose your confidence – come on.”
So I reached out to people in my network – people who knew me – and that’s something I strongly encourage now: really think about your network and don’t lose sight of your strengths and the expertise you bring.
I kept reminding myself of something I now say to clients: “You are not starting from no experience. You are starting from so much experience, so many skills and so much lived experience.” Now is the time to bundle that, be proud of it and take it with you. That experience belongs to us. It doesn’t belong to previous employers. We take it with us.
So in transition, it’s really a time to cherish what we have and move forward from there.
Mark:
Yeah, absolutely. In my book I call that your “treasure chest”. I think you're right in how you describe that – all those things you take with you that are portable and transferable.
What other things do you think are important when it comes to making a career transition? What makes the biggest difference, in your experience?
Suzanne:
Number one has got to be looking after ourselves. If we don’t focus on our health and wellbeing, everything else gets affected.
When I set my business up in January 2021, just before we went into the second lockdown, I’d come off the back of that fixed-term contract. I decided, “Right, I’m going to start the business.” But guess what I didn’t do? I didn’t look after myself.
We know we have more mental clarity when we are rested, when we’re exercising, getting out, having breaks, fresh air, movement. I also find that people – especially extroverts, but introverts too – get a lot of energy from being around others. In career transition, people can end up at home, on their own, staring at a screen and looking for jobs all day. That doesn’t support our wellbeing at all.
So that’s key: really thinking about your health and wellbeing, what energises you and what’s going to help you right now.
Pausing is another one. Rest, wellbeing, pausing. There is huge power in pausing. Pausing isn’t wasted time; it’s strategy. It’s reflecting on what you want next. Especially after redundancy or job loss, we can jump straight into “I’ve got to get the next role”. But we may be in a different stage of life now, and pausing to consider that is really important.
Keeping perspective is another one, especially if it’s been a job loss. When I got fired, I had to keep reminding myself: “I’ve got my kids. I’ve got my home.” Those small things help you keep perspective.
And then celebrating every single win. There will be rejections, interviews where you get pipped at the post, applications that go nowhere. Celebrating every win – however small – becomes really important.
Mark:
Yeah, so many good points there. I always think about the three Ps: try not to see it as Personal, Pervasive or Permanent.
Quite often these things aren’t personal. They’re organisational decisions. It can feel personal, but often it isn’t. It’s also not pervasive – it doesn’t affect every part of your life, even though it can feel like it does. You can still exercise, see friends, live your life. Part of the job is to stop it spreading into everything.
And it’s not permanent either. So the three Ps can be quite helpful in thinking your way through it, even though it’s a challenging situation.
It can also be an opportunity, can’t it? It doesn’t have to be, “I’m in the trenches and I just need to grab the next thing as quickly as possible.” It can be that, but it can also be an opening.
Suzanne:
Yes, I think change can always be an opportunity. There are downsides to change, but there are always upsides too.
Like you said, it’s really key not to take it personally. I was on a webinar a couple of weeks ago with two of my clients, and someone said, “I’ve been made redundant and I’m so embarrassed about it.” But your role has been made redundant. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about in this ever-changing world of work where change is constant.
So yes, not taking it personally is really important. And as you said, it’s temporary. Even though it can feel heavy at the time, you will get through it. If you want another job, you will get another job. It’s those reminders that matter.
Mark:
Do you have any examples of how you’ve helped a client who’s been in a difficult place to move through this and get to where they needed to be?
Suzanne:
I’ve got loads! I’ll share two recent ones.
The first is someone from my community – not even a one-to-one client. She joined my redundancy and career transition community, which is a low-cost group, and sent me this message recently:
“Suzanne, I was absolutely broken when I first got in touch with you in August this year and I’m so happy that I started working with you. I’ve felt your genuine support and interest. At a time when we lose our team and don’t have our colleagues around us, you’ve created a team of people who have given that support, accountability and focus on our goals. I wouldn’t be where I am without you.”
That was a joy to receive. She’s also given so much back in the community – supporting others, celebrating wins, encouraging people.
On our community call about a month ago she said, “I would really love to get a job by Christmas.” She starts her new job next Monday. When she first came to me, she said, “I’ve lost myself. Am I ever going to get another job?” So seeing that change has been incredible.
The second example is a one-to-one client of mine who is neurodiverse. He’d had a huge confidence knock at senior level in his previous organisation. He then pivoted away from his business development and account management career and set up a personal training and fitness business.
After a while he realised he wanted to go back into business development and account management – the work he loved. He came to me and said, “I want you on my team. I’m getting my support team around me to get the next step.”
He didn’t lose sight of his strengths and expertise. He narrowed his focus on the industries he was interested in and worked really hard at getting that next opportunity.
He’s now with a market leader in the health and wellness industry as head of account management across the globe. It’s a perfect fit. There were wobbles along the way – interviews that didn’t work out, confidence dips – but he kept coming back to, “I know I can do this.”
I checked in with him recently and he’s really enjoying it. So yes, as you said earlier, it’s temporary. It feels heavy at the time, but you do come out the other side.
Mark:
Yeah, two great stories there to bring your work to life.
You mentioned the community, so I want to go back to that. You talked earlier about your community – is it “My Career Space” community? Is that the working title?
Suzanne:
Yes, I think we’re going to call it that, but it could change. I’ll probably ask the community to help me choose a final name.
Mark:
Why does community make such a positive difference during career transitions, do you think? And then maybe tell me a little bit about your community.
Suzanne:
It's small but perfectly formed right now. I’ve run two communities before. I ran one during the pandemic when I was really struggling myself. I brought people together and it was a joy. If I could have that time again, I’d have continued it, but most people found jobs. I think there were four people left and they said, “You need to set your business up now and put your energy into this. We’re fine – we’ll continue our calls.”
Then I ran a paid community, which was also great. This year, we all know the job market has been really challenging. On LinkedIn I’ve been seeing “Open to work” banners everywhere and hearing from a lot of people who are struggling. I knew I could do something more.
So I took all of my experience – over 15 years in outplacement and 30 years total including recruitment – and put it into digital courses. Then I decided to open up community calls every couple of weeks as well.
We’ve got an amazing group of people. It started with just five – which wasn’t the profitable part of my business at all; the B2B work is – but I wanted it to be a place of service. Those first five professionals were all set to go, so I was ready.
We’ve now grown to 14 people. Because of the nature of it, we grow and shrink – in the last couple of months, five of them have landed jobs, which is exactly what we want.
We’ve seen someone do a complete career change in this market. We’ve seen someone who was out of work for eight months land her first contract, and she’s got more interviews lined up. On the day Amazon announced big redundancies, one of our members started a new role in retail leadership. So while there can be doom and gloom in the wider market, we’re creating a different kind of space.
The reason community is so important is that we spend our working lives in teams – setting goals, celebrating wins, strategising when challenges come up. In career transition, especially when people are out of work, they often try to navigate everything alone. It’s not the time to do it alone.
So my community is something I want to continue for as long as people want it.
Mark:
And how does it work in practice? Do people join when they need it and then leave once they’ve found their next step? So you’ve got a pool of people coming and going?
Suzanne:
Yes, exactly. It’s not a classic “profitable” model – community specialists have told me I should build a community people stay in for one or two years. I’ve created a community where we welcome people joining, but we also celebrate them leaving.
People can join at any time. I don’t want it to be, “The doors close on this date.” I want it to be a place where someone can think, “I’ve just found this lovely space,” and feel welcome.
The current structure is that people come in for three months, and then they can continue on a monthly basis. I’d love to move to a one-off fee in future, to grow it and keep it simple.
I’m also looking at how I can bring in a free tier. I’d really love to be able to do that, and I’ve got a couple of volunteers who’ve offered to help. It’s on the radar, but I also need to balance my energy and make sure I’m focusing on what’s sustainable for the business.
A lovely side note: the people who have left because they’ve found jobs are still in the group supporting others – cheering them on for interviews, celebrating wins. They don’t have to stay, but they choose to, which is a real joy.
Mark:
Yeah, and I think that speaks to the fact that we like being in groups and communities. Maybe we don’t get as much of that as we used to at work. There’s still a lot of hybrid working, and people seek out other groups to be part of. Your group does sound very appealing. I’ll definitely put a link in the show notes to what you’re doing.
Suzanne:
Thank you. It’s a beautiful space. I originally narrowed it to leaders in career transition, but then I thought, redundancy affects everyone. So I broadened it to leaders and professionals.
We host it in a private LinkedIn group. We share goals, hold each other accountable, people buddy up to practise interviews, and we expand our networks together. We also run masterclasses – on interviews, visibility, challenges like posting on LinkedIn – and little practical sessions, like the LinkedIn hacks I did yesterday. One person realised her profile wasn’t visible or optimised, which is important when you’re job searching.
It’s definitely a joy to be in that space.
Mark:
What shifts or patterns are you noticing at the moment in how people think about their careers – especially with hybrid work, uncertainty, and all the changes people are navigating? What are you seeing?
Suzanne:
I’m seeing people almost expect redundancy and career transitions more. It’s still not something they want, but it’s not quite as taboo or shocking as it once was.
There’s also a big trend around taking more control of our careers – building robust networks outside our organisation, really thinking about what we want and don’t want.
I’m seeing a lot more people wanting purpose-driven work. I’m doing quite a bit in the public sector as well as the private sector, and in both I’m seeing people wanting more clarity on self-leadership, strengths, values, and what feels important at this stage of life.
So there’s this rising values-led, purpose-led decision-making.
But that doesn’t always mean a complete career pivot. It can be about finding more purpose in your current role, or through voluntary work, for example.
Mark:
Yeah, I mean there have always been people who seek something additional. They might enjoy their role but it doesn’t meet certain needs, so they find that elsewhere. Voluntary work can be one of the places they find that.
It’s important to remember we still have needs later in our careers, and we have to work out how we’ll meet them. I think you’re right: understanding values, strengths and interests gives you something to build from.
Suzanne:
Exactly. And I think it’s good to keep doing “temperature checks” – compass checks – at different stages in our careers. What mattered five years ago might not be what matters now.
People do say, “I want more purpose in my work,” and we can explore that in their current role. It might mean a change outside work. It might mean voluntary work.
I’m seeing more people volunteering. I’m doing two voluntary roles myself alongside running the business. One of those voluntary roles actually led to my biggest B2B contract, which I wasn’t expecting – so we never quite know what will come from it.
Hybrid work means we’re often more remote, and we want human connection again. So there’s a lot in play. We’ve seen huge change in the last five years.
Mark:
I’m glad you mentioned volunteering, especially using your existing skills. We often get this idea that our “main” career should meet all our needs, and there’s risk in that. It might mean reducing your income or stepping away from something that’s working in other ways.
I’m not saying changing direction is wrong – if you really don’t enjoy your work, it might be the right thing. But if you can meet some needs elsewhere and make adjustments to your current role so it gets better, that can be a win-win.
It’s about thinking strategically about your current role and being deliberate about how you meet your needs. It isn’t always the best option to expect one job to meet everything, even though it can sometimes happen.
Suzanne:
Yes, there are so many ways to do it. One of my friends is an HR Director by day and then does horse chiropractic work in the evenings because that’s something she loves.
Others might do sports coaching with young people, for example. I work with a women’s charity helping women who’ve been through big adversity get back on their feet and into work. That’s a joy – there’s no strategic angle, it’s just meaningful.
Work is a big part of our lives, but there’s a whole range of ways we can give back or find more fulfilment.
Mark:
I like this “thinking differently” we’re doing here. I want to bring it back to the audience of this podcast – mid-career professionals.
If you could bust one myth about career change for mid-career professionals, what would it be?
Suzanne:
I’d say the myth that it’s too late.
I’m going to say this as a 48-year-old woman who just celebrated her sister’s 50th. I’m nearer 50 than 40, and I still feel I’m in the prime of my career.
By mid-career we have life experience, lived experience, resilience. We’ve been through challenges. We have things employers can’t easily teach.
So I’d say to listeners: it’s natural to have self-doubt. When I started my business, imposter syndrome was rife. But I know I am in the prime of my career.
Really think about your lived experience, strengths, skills and values. If you’re not clear on what they are, get clear. Spend time on your values, strengths and what matters to you at this stage of life.
And know that you’re capable of whatever you put your mind to. We’re seeing a huge rise in people in their fifties, sixties and even seventies who don’t want to stop working. One of my community members is in his seventies.
We’re living longer, working longer – we can absolutely be in the prime of our lives at many different ages.
Mark:
I also think it’s important that we think about the second half of our careers a bit more thoughtfully.
I used to think, “When I get into my fifties, I’ll be heading towards retirement.” There was this vague picture of putting my feet up, relaxing. But as you move through your career, you realise you still need to meet your needs – whatever they are.
For me, stopping and putting my feet up all the time just wouldn’t be satisfying. I realised during the pandemic – I’d left my corporate job, started my career coaching business, and wasn’t in an office. There were things I wasn’t doing that I used to do, and I missed them.
You have to work out how you’ll meet those needs later in your career as well. I like how you describe getting clear on values, strengths and interests – then building something from that. It’s so important to have that self-understanding.
Suzanne:
It really is. And it’s not something everyone automatically thinks to do – especially if they’ve been in the same job for 10 or 20 years. You don’t always look within unless a big life change pushes you to.
If we can start looking within before a big life event – before redundancy, divorce, or whatever it might be – that’s even better. Keep doing that compass check: are we living to our values? Which values aren’t being met?
My top value is connection. When I let my previous community go, I felt lost and lonely. So for me, it’s vital that I live that value.
As for your “feet up with a chocolate biscuit” picture of retirement – that would be boring for me too! Maybe for a couple of hours, but not as a whole life.
Be proactive now. Don’t wait for the big life event. Be proactive with your network, proactive with connections outside work, proactive about your career before you’re forced to be.
I’ve seen my dad retire after 47 years with one company. He found it a big transition and is very much “fully retired” now. He turns 80 next year. But on the other side, I recently saw a man on LinkedIn in his eighties setting up a business and sharing his story. It really is never too late.
Mark:
For someone mid-career thinking, “I know something has to change,” what small, realistic steps could they take right now?
Suzanne:
First, lean into where you’re feeling misaligned. Where’s it showing up – in life outside work, in your role, in your relationships with work? How’s it showing up?
Someone once said to me: even in the word misalignment, you’ve still got alignment. So those feelings can point you towards what alignment might look like.
If you’re feeling misaligned, the best thing you can do is reflect on your journey so far. Journalling can really help. Journalling gave me the biggest clarity for the biggest life decision I’ve ever made.
Talking it through with trusted people also helps – people in your support network who you can be honest with.
We also haven’t discussed this yet, but for women in mid-career, perimenopause can play a part. It certainly did for me. It can affect our clarity and anxiety levels, and that can cause brain fog and confusion.
So journalling, talking, and – where needed – speaking to your doctor or menopause specialist can be really helpful. Rather than staying on the treadmill, pause and listen to what’s going on.
Don’t do what I did, which was just keep going and going and going, to the point of burnout. I’d never put myself or my kids through that again. So I’d say: be kind to yourself.
Mark:
Yeah. We did have a menopause expert on the podcast – I’ll put a link in the show notes, because it was a useful conversation.
And I like that you mentioned journalling. Slightly self-indulgent, but I’m partway through completing my latest book, which is called Write Your Career, about how you can use writing to help you in your career.
I’ve used journalling and writing for many years to find answers, create space and get clearer in my life and career. I wanted a way to translate that into something that helps people think about their own next steps.
So there’s a 30-day course and a book. The course is a 30-day programme – one prompt a day, about 10 minutes of writing. That goes live at the start of January.
The book comes out on 1 April and is a deeper dive into using writing: free writing, timed writing, dialogue journalling, momentum journalling, prompts, and other techniques that can help you think about what’s next.
Suzanne:
I love that. I’ve just shared a journal I wrote in my own community and they’re all journalling in there. I’ve said to them: in transition we can go into panic mode, or we can go within. There’s real power in that space.
So it’s great that you’ve created that – thank you for sharing it.
Mark:
Thank you. So Suzanne, what’s next for you? What are you excited about and what’s coming up?
Suzanne:
The main place I hang out is LinkedIn – as you know, I think we’ve followed each other’s journeys there for a while. I post every week without fail, and I really enjoy that.
People can also find me at suzannepenny.com – that’s probably the easiest place to go. And if anyone is interested in my community, you’d be very welcome. Just reach out on LinkedIn and we can chat about it.
In terms of what’s next: I haven’t really shared this widely, but I’d love to have my own podcast next year. That’s a big one.
I’m also 46,000 words into writing my first book, so I need to create the space to finish it. I’ve promised my kids I won’t be an “almost author” – I’m going to get it out there.
I’d like to build the community, keep the B2B work going – that’s my key income – and I’d also love to do more in-person work. I’ve started a free, in-person, Cotswolds-based leaders networking event just to get out of the house more and see people.
So yes, quite a lot going on, and hopefully my book will be out next year too.
Mark:
Brilliant. Well, any book of yours is very welcome on this podcast, and if you need support with any of that, do give me a shout.
Thank you so much for coming along today to chat with me. It’s been a pleasure to catch up with you again – and yes, maybe you should come on again next year and talk to us about your new book. That would be good, wouldn’t it?
Suzanne:
Oh my gosh, that would be a joy. I’d love to. And I’ll definitely be reaching out for some podcast tips as well, Mark.
Mark:
You’re welcome. Thanks again, Suzanne.
Suzanne:
Thank you, Mark.
Mark:
So that’s my conversation with Suzanne Penny. I really appreciate how openly she talks about the realities of career transition – the moments that feel uncertain, the small steps that make a difference, and the power of not doing it all on your own.
What stood out for me is her reminder that transition isn’t just a change of direction; it’s a process of rebuilding confidence, connection and a sense of possibility.
If you’re navigating change yourself, I hope today has given you a bit of reassurance and a few ideas for your next step. And if community is something you’ve been missing, Suzanne’s work is well worth exploring.
Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you in the next episode. Bye for now.
Outro
Thanks for listening today. I hope you gained some valuable insights to help you navigate your mid-career journey, enjoy what you do each day, and build a fulfilling and successful next chapter.
Don’t forget to check out previous episodes and the show notes at bravocoaching.co.uk/podcast.
If you’re wondering what’s next for your career, download my free guide Should I Stay or Should I Go? at bravocoaching.co.uk/go.
And feel free to connect with me at mark@bravocoaching.co.uk, or you can find me on LinkedIn.
See you next time.